It’s no longer enough to lead with a spreadsheet and a playbook. Today’s most effective leaders must inspire purpose, foster deep human connection, and create cultures where people—and ideas—can thrive. That’s the mission behind the Humanity at Scale: Redefining Leadership Podcast. In each episode, I explore the question: What does it really take to lead in ways that elevate both people and organizational performance?

Over the first six episodes, I’ve spoken with bold thinkers and seasoned executives who are challenging the norms of leadership—from pioneers in design and loyalty to innovators in senior care, conflict resolution, and workplace empowerment.

1. From Profit to Purpose: Rethinking Design’s Role in Society with Don Norman
2. Purpose, Perseverance, and People: Ryan Hogan’s Formula for Success
3. The “Dragon Slayer” Approach: Empowering Teams to Elevate Senior Care with Nikki Kresses
4. Beyond Profits: The Power of Customer Loyalty with Fred Reichheld
5. From Conflict To Connection: Harnessing Curiosity, Empathy, and Dialogue with Dr. Tania Israel
6. Why Smart Leaders Ask More and Tell Less with Liz Wiseman

These leaders didn’t just share ideas; they offered blueprints. Their stories and insights offer fresh, practical ways to lead with intention and humanity.

In this article, we’ll unpack the wisdom from each of those conversations and distill what they mean for today’s leaders. Whether you’re guiding a team, shaping a company, or just rethinking your leadership philosophy, there’s something here to spark your thinking—and your actions.

Episode 1: From Profit to Purpose with Don Norman

Don Norman is a design visionary whose influence stretches from the academic halls of cognitive science to the cutting-edge product teams at Apple. As co-founder of the Nielsen Norman Group and author of the seminal Design of Everyday Things, Don has long shaped how we think about usability. But today, he’s urging us to expand our definition of design—and leadership—entirely. His latest book, Design for a Better World, calls for leaders to go beyond user-centricity and embrace systemic, sustainable, and ethical design.

Here are five key insights from our conversation:

• Look beyond usability. “The Design of Everyday Things was wrong—not in its usability principles, but because it missed the broader context,” Don admits. His evolution is a powerful reminder that great leaders must constantly reassess the broader implications of their work.
• Measure what truly matters. Don believes it’s time to move beyond profits and start measuring leadership success through improvements in well-being, sustainability, and long-term societal value. As he says, “We need new metrics—ones that measure if we’re leaving the world better than we found it.”
• Use AI as a tool, not a crutch. While Don acknowledges AI’s power, he’s clear about its limitations: “It’s not smart. It doesn’t think.” Leaders must use AI to support—not replace—human creativity and decision-making.
• Design with, not for. Top-down problem-solving often misses the mark. Don urges leaders to co-create with the people they’re trying to serve: “Design with people, not for them.” That shift changes everything about how we approach impact.
• Invest in emerging voices. The Don Norman Design Award recognizes early-career innovators making a difference. Don believes supporting the next generation is essential for creating a future shaped by human-centric innovation.

Episode 2: Purpose, Perseverance, and People with Ryan Hogan

Founder of Hunt A Killer, former naval officer, and serial entrepreneur, Ryan Hogan’s leadership journey has been shaped by scrappy ambition, hard-won resilience, and a deep commitment to personal growth—both his own and others’. From selling creepy crawlers in grade school to launching a wildly successful immersive gaming business, Ryan’s story is packed with high-stakes learning, second chances, and a belief that great leaders are built through the grind—not above it.

Here are five key insights from our conversation:

• Roadblocks are learning opportunities. Ryan’s path is marked by failure—but not in the way most people fear it. His zombie-themed obstacle race, Run For Your Lives, hit $8 million in revenue before imploding. “That company went bankrupt just as fast as it grew,” he shared. But instead of seeing failure as a signal to quit, Ryan treated it as a tuition payment for real-world leadership lessons. Each misstep helped clarify his purpose and fueled his drive to build something more sustainable.
• Empathy does not mean being nice. In the Navy, Ryan faced serious disciplinary action for a poor decision. “Everyone else lost their wings,” he said. But his commanding officer saw potential and gave him another shot. “He wasn’t being nice—he was being compassionate and growth-focused,” Ryan reflected. That distinction stuck with him. He learned that true empathy isn’t about leniency—it’s about believing in someone enough to hold them to a higher standard.
• Storytelling is a powerful tool. For Ryan, storytelling isn’t just a feature of the product—it’s at the heart of how he leads. His company’s success is built on immersive narratives, but that same skill shows up in how he communicates vision and inspires teams. “If you want to inspire action, don’t tell people what to do—tell them a story that moves them,” he said. He believes stories are how people find meaning, align around purpose, and connect to the mission.
• Employee growth is critical, even if they leave. Ryan doesn’t see employee retention as the ultimate measure of success. Instead, he focuses on helping people grow—even if that growth leads them elsewhere. “If they grow with us, great. If they grow and leave us, that’s great too.” One-on-ones aren’t just for performance reviews—they’re a space to uncover what motivates someone and how to support their broader journey, inside or outside the organization.
• It’s all about moving and iterating. Ryan’s leadership philosophy is grounded in motion. “Figure it out, adapt, iterate,” he said, describing how he navigated both failed ventures and scaling successes. He doesn’t wait for perfect answers—he builds, tests, and adjusts along the way. That mindset of rapid learning and constant iteration has helped him stay agile in the face of uncertainty and turn creativity into consistent impact.

Episode 3: The “Dragon Slayer” Approach WIth Nikki Kresses

Nikki Kresse brings a rare fusion of operational grit and human empathy. As Chief Experience and People Officer at LifeSpace Communities, she’s redefining what it means to lead in senior living. Her experience spans retail, hospitality, and healthcare, and she brings a pragmatic-yet-deeply-human approach to leadership. Nikki doesn’t just talk about culture—she lives it, even going so far as to move into one of her communities to better understand resident and staff experiences firsthand.

Here are five key insights from our conversation:

• Immersion enhances empathy. Nikki didn’t just visit the senior living communities she oversees—she moved into one. For an entire month, she shared meals with residents, attended their activities, and experienced the day-to-day from their perspective. One powerful realization? “The nameplates were too high for people in wheelchairs to see. That small detail made a big difference,” she recalled. It was a reminder that true empathy comes not from assumptions, but from being present where people live and work.
• Leadership is about clarity, not control. Nikki reflected on her evolution from command-and-control leadership to one rooted in empowerment. “Early in my career, I thought being the expert meant having the answers. Now I know it’s about creating space for others to shine.” She now focuses on providing clear expectations while trusting her teams to find the best paths forward. That shift from control to clarity unlocks initiative, ownership, and innovation across the organization.
• Experience is the differentiator. In a market where facilities and amenities can look similar, Nikki believes the emotional experience is what truly sets LifeSpace apart. “It’s like a cruise ship on land—but with deeper purpose,” she said. From daily interactions to memorable moments, the focus is on connection—not just care. By empowering employees to act as “dragon slayers,” the organization encourages staff to create extraordinary experiences that leave lasting impressions.
• Purpose-driven is a retention tool. When Nikki and her team introduced the “Our Space” initiative, they weren’t just hoping for better engagement—they were aiming to build emotional connection to the mission. It worked. “When people feel connected to something bigger, they don’t burn out—they dig in,” she said. Turnover dropped dramatically, and employees began to see their roles not just as jobs, but as meaningful contributions to residents’ lives.
• Vulnerability builds trust. Nikki doesn’t lead from a place of perfection—she leads with openness. She frequently shares her own journey, including moments when she recognized her own fixed mindset. “Being vulnerable isn’t weakness. It’s being real.” That authenticity creates space for others to be honest, take risks, and grow. It’s not just a leadership tactic—it’s the foundation of a culture rooted in trust.

Episode 4: Beyond Profits: The Power of Customer Loyalty with Fred Reichheld

Fred Reichheld revolutionized how companies think about customer loyalty. As the creator of the Net Promoter Score (NPS) and author of Winning on Purpose, he introduced a powerful idea: sustainable growth comes not from chasing efficiency, but from earning trust and enriching lives. His work challenges leaders to measure what truly matters and build organizations that are loved—not just liked—by customers and employees alike.

Here are five key insights from our conversation:

• Focus on behaviors not scores. Fred doesn’t mince words when critiquing how most companies misuse NPS. “Most people do NPS horribly,” he said. Instead of obsessing over survey results, he urges leaders to focus on what really matters: customer behavior. Are people coming back? Are they referring their friends? That’s what loyalty looks like—and that’s what should guide strategy.
• Earn growth, don’t just buy it. Fred draws a sharp distinction between two types of growth: the kind you purchase through advertising and the kind you earn by consistently delivering value. He introduced the concept of “earned growth”—revenue that comes from repeat customers and referrals—as a more honest and sustainable indicator of success. “Referrals are trust in action,” he said. For Fred, earned growth is not just a metric—it’s proof that you’re enriching lives in a way people want to share.
• Fix less, delight more. Most companies, according to Fred, are stuck in reactive mode. “95% of energy goes to fixing detractors,” he said. But what if we redirected that energy? What if more companies invested in creating moments that customers love so much, they can’t help but share them? Delight, not damage control, is what builds lasting emotional loyalty.
• Use AI with integrity. Fred is highly critical of companies using AI in ways that exploit customers. “Some use it to legally rob customers,” he said bluntly. His message is clear: technology should enhance the experience, not diminish it. AI has the potential to build trust—when it’s used to personalize, predict, and empower rather than automate away humanity.
• Love your people. Fred’s leadership philosophy starts from the inside. “Leaders who love their teams help them lead lives of meaning and prosperity,” he shared. He’s convinced that customer loyalty is rooted in employee well-being. When people feel valued, they create value. It’s not just good business—it’s the foundation of any great company.

Episode 5: From Conflict To Connection with Dr. Tania Israel

Dr. Tania Israel is a psychologist, professor at UC Santa Barbara, and author of Beyond Your Bubble and Facing the Fracture. She’s a nationally recognized expert on empathy, conflict resolution, and dialogue across difference. With decades of research and real-world application, Tania helps people and organizations move beyond polarization by fostering curiosity, understanding, and perspective-taking. Her work is especially relevant for leaders navigating cultural divides, interpersonal tension, or team dynamics shaped by disagreement. In a world of increasing fragmentation, Tania offers a roadmap for building bridges instead of walls.

Here are five key insights from our conversation:

• Curiosity invites connection. Tania believes that the moment we feel baffled by another person’s perspective is exactly when we need to lean in. “When someone says, ‘I just can’t understand how they think that way,’ I see an opportunity,” she explained. In her view, that confusion is a signal—not a barrier—to begin asking questions. True curiosity transforms division into discovery.
• Biases distort our intent. One of the most powerful concepts Tania introduced is “motive attribution asymmetry”—the idea that we assume our side is driven by good intentions while the other side acts out of selfishness or malice. “When both sides believe that,” she said, “dialogue collapses.” This bias doesn’t just show up in politics; it seeps into workplaces and families. Recognizing it is the first step toward rehumanizing those we disagree with.
• Dialogue needs deliberate space. Tania emphasized that real dialogue doesn’t happen by accident. Leaders must create conditions for people to express themselves and feel heard—even when things get uncomfortable. She offered practical ideas: structured forums for conversation, cross-team storytelling exercises, and norms that reward understanding over winning. “Ignoring tension doesn’t dissolve it,” she warned. “It just moves it underground.”
• Perspective-taking builds empathy. To move beyond surface-level connection, Tania recommends deliberate exercises that help people step into each other’s shoes. In her own workshops, she uses role-reversal and storytelling techniques to help participants see through someone else’s lens. “You don’t have to agree,” she said. “But when you understand what’s underneath someone’s position, the conversation changes.”
• Regulation enables reflection. When emotions run high, logic often goes out the window. Tania discussed the importance of self-regulation—not just to avoid conflict, but to stay present. “If you’re emotionally hijacked, you can’t really listen,” she said. Even simple techniques like deep breathing or pausing before responding can radically improve how we show up in difficult conversations.

Episode 6: Why Smart Leaders Ask More and Tell Less with Liz Wiseman

Liz Wiseman is a globally respected leadership strategist and bestselling author of Multipliers, Rookie Smarts, and Impact Players. As CEO of the Wiseman Group, she’s worked with executives at Apple, Google, Nike, and Tesla, helping them tap into the full intelligence of their teams. Liz’s work centers on a transformative idea: the best leaders aren’t the ones with all the answers—they’re the ones who bring out the genius in others. Her research offers practical, high-impact strategies for shifting from being the center of the action to creating the space for others to lead and grow.

Here are five key insights from our conversation:

• Multipliers spark capability and confidence. At the core of Liz’s research is a compelling insight: leaders who multiply don’t just get more done—they grow more leaders. “Multipliers use their intelligence to amplify the smarts and capabilities of the people around them,” she said. It’s not about taking control; it’s about creating an environment where stretch becomes the norm, mistakes become fuel, and people leave stronger than they came. In her words, “Multipliers are leaders who make everyone around them better.”
• Accidental diminishers are everywhere. Liz made it clear that diminishing behavior isn’t just the domain of bad bosses—it often comes from the well-meaning. “Most diminishing is accidental,” she said. Leaders who jump in too quickly (the Rescuer), move too fast (the Rapid Responder), or stay relentlessly upbeat (the Optimist) may think they’re helping—but they’re actually taking space away from others. “The road to diminishing is paved with good intentions,” she explained. Recognizing these patterns is the first step toward building a team of thinkers, not followers.
• Great cultures are built on intensity, not tension. Liz drew a sharp contrast between tense and intense environments. “Tension feels like you’re being squeezed. Intensity feels like you’re being stretched.” The best leaders create intensity by setting high expectations and trusting people to rise. It’s the difference between pressure that paralyzes and challenge that energizes—a crucial nuance in high-performance cultures.
• Rookie smarts beat expert blind spots. In today’s changing world, being experienced can actually be dangerous. “The most valuable leaders are those with rookie smarts,” Liz said. These leaders approach problems with curiosity, ask naïve questions, and experiment freely. They don’t fall into the trap of the “knowing zone,” where past expertise limits present agility. “The rookie zone is where learning lives,” she emphasized—and where leaders model lifelong growth.
• The best leaders ask more than they tell. One of Liz’s most powerful challenges was the “Extreme Question Challenge.” Her prompt? Go through an entire meeting without making a single statement. Just ask questions. “Watch what happens when you shift the airtime,” she said. This subtle but powerful practice invites others to think harder, speak up more, and build confidence in their own thinking. It’s leadership through inquiry, not instruction.

Sparking New Leadership Thinking

Across the first six episodes, several themes kept emerging—ideas that challenge traditional assumptions and point the way toward a more human-centric model of leadership. Based on their insights, here are five ways that you can lead with more purpose, empathy, and impact:

1. Shift from expert to enabler. Liz Wiseman reminded us that leaders who act like the smartest person in the room often limit what others can contribute. Her concept of the “accidental diminisher” shows how even well-intended leaders can unintentionally suppress team potential. By contrast, leaders who ask more and tell less unlock creativity and capability. Nikki Kresse echoed this mindset—her evolution from giving directions to creating clarity allowed her teams to step up and take ownership. Empowering others isn’t just generous—it’s strategic.
2. Lead with curiosity, not conclusions. Curiosity emerged as a superpower across these conversations. Tania Israel urges leaders to treat confusion as an invitation rather than a threat. “I just don’t understand how they think that way” isn’t the end of a conversation—it’s where it should begin. Liz Wiseman’s “Extreme Question Challenge” puts this into action: by asking instead of telling, leaders activate deeper thinking and engagement. When curiosity becomes a norm, teams become more resilient and solutions more creative.
3. Build loyalty through relationships, not numbers. Fred Reichheld introduced the concept of “earned growth”—real success that comes from trust, not transactions. His critique of NPS misuse is clear: loyalty isn’t a score, it’s behavior. Ryan Hogan brings this same philosophy to team development, seeing one-on-ones as spaces for discovery, not just updates. Whether it’s a customer or a colleague, loyalty grows when people feel known, valued, and supported beyond the task at hand.
4. Design with people, not just for them. Don Norman challenges leaders to co-design systems with those most affected. It’s not enough to solve problems from afar—leaders must engage with communities to create meaningful change. Nikki Kresse exemplified this by immersing herself in a senior living facility and noticing overlooked details like inaccessible nameplates. That level of presence and empathy transforms leadership from directive to collaborative—and builds solutions that truly serve.
5. Define success by impact, not just output. Don Norman and Fred Reichheld both called out the limitations of traditional metrics. Don argues that design—and leadership—should prioritize societal well-being and long-term sustainability. Fred reinforces that chasing high NPS scores without actually enriching lives is meaningless. Ryan Hogan and Nikki Kresse added that internal success means enabling people to grow—even if that growth leads them elsewhere. Great leaders don’t just count heads—they change lives.

The Bottom Line

If there’s one truth echoed across these conversations, it’s this: Leadership is no longer about control. It’s about sparking the potential in others, designing with care, and leading with purpose. When leaders embrace curiosity, elevate others, and expand their vision beyond profits, they don’t just grow organizations—they ignite Humanity at Scale.